Are You Independent, Interdependent, or Codependent?

All relationships require walking a delicate line between meeting the other person’s needs while also taking care of your own. Finding this balance can be difficult at times, but can also be incredibly rewarding when it’s done in a healthy way. In today’s episode of Your Personal Power Pod, we talk about three different ways a relationship can play out, and the rewards and consequences of each.


We want to hear from you, whether it’s your stories about how self-esteem and personal power affect your life, or topics you’d like us to address in future episodes. We’d love for you to review our podcast. Do this on your streaming service or visit www.yourpersonalpowerpod.com , click Contact and drop us an email. You can also find us on Instagram at Your Personal Power Pod.

Also, if you’d like to make changes in your personal or business life, spending time with a coach can make all the difference.  Sandy is offering a free consultation, so contact her at sandy@insidejobscoach.com and put COACHING in the subject line to schedule a free call.

Thank you for listening to Your Personal Power Pod.  We look forward to hearing from you.

And, until next time, find your power and change your life!

Transcript

E91 Are You Independent Interdependent or Codependent

[00:00:00] Shannon: Welcome to your personal power pod, a podcast about aligning yourself with the life you want. And here are your hosts, Sandy Abel and Shannon Young.

[00:00:21] Sandy: Sandy! I'm excited about 

[00:00:23] Shannon: today. I am too. And this is a topic that we kind of addressed last week when we talked about enabling and what that means. And so this is the natural continuation. We'll be talking about the different ways to be in relationships and where enabling 

[00:00:39] Sandy: comes into play. Absolutely.

[00:00:41] Sandy: Because all relationships require walking a delicate line between meeting the other person's need while also taking care of your own. Finding the balance can be difficult at times, but it can also be incredibly rewarding and healthy. We're going to start with independence. Yes, 

[00:00:59] Shannon: which so [00:01:00] many of us think is a really good thing to be, but you can also go over the line with 

[00:01:05] Sandy: it.

[00:01:05] Sandy: Exactly. That is very true. When you're independent, you rely on yourself for emotional and practical needs. You're self sufficient and usually have a strong sense of who you are. 

[00:01:16] Shannon: You feel empowered. You have good self esteem. You're resilient. You're open to growing, which means sometimes making mistakes, self discovery, and also pretty good at setting healthy boundaries.

[00:01:29] Sandy: Exactly. You make your own decisions and move ahead in your life the way that works for you. However, if you are excessively independent, it can sometimes lead to you being isolated, feeling lonely, and having a reluctance to seek support from or connect with others. So independence is a good thing, but you also have to realize that It can be excessive and then that can be damaging for yourself.

[00:01:56] Shannon: I remember a friend of mine a long time ago used to say, I don't [00:02:00] need anybody. I'm the strongest person you'll ever meet. I don't need anybody. And I just thought that is such a weakness, buddy. You don't even know it.

[00:02:11] Sandy: Exactly. It's good to be independent, but it's better to be interdependent, which is when you maintain your autonomy and your boundaries and you take care of your feelings and don't expect other people to fix those, but you also are willing to work with other people and have other people in your life.

[00:02:31] Sandy: It's about 

[00:02:31] Shannon: getting clear in your sense of self and making sure you have healthy boundaries, protect you but also allow you to let people in when they respect those boundaries so that you can work with other people, whether that's in a personal relationship or a work relationship or a parent child relationship.

[00:02:50] Shannon: It's how you find community and 

[00:02:51] Sandy: family. Exactly. It fosters cooperation and mutual respect. You still have your strong sense of self and you know what works for you and [00:03:00] who you are and you don't count on other people to define that for you. But you're also very happy to be collaborative and listen to other people's needs too and respect that.

[00:03:10] Shannon: But you can go too far if you don't have the ability to set strong boundaries and you don't have a very clear sense of self and good self esteem, and then you can lapse into codependence. And that was a buzzword for quite some time. What exactly does 

[00:03:27] Sandy: it mean? Well, a lot of times the word codependent is used in relation to people who are dealing with others who are addicted to drugs or alcohol or something like that.

[00:03:39] Sandy: And it means that instead of holding the addicted person accountable, they make excuses for them and they take care of them and they enable, like we talked about last time. When you do that, you're being codependent. It's when you intentionally or unwittingly enable and support another person's negative behaviors.

[00:03:59] Sandy: These [00:04:00] codependent relationships can exist in a variety of different relationships, not just with somebody who's addicted or with your child or your spouse, but with all kinds of relationships. I think it's 

[00:04:13] Shannon: really interesting that if you're codependent in one relationship, you're not necessarily codependent in another.

[00:04:19] Shannon: I know people who are very secure and great in their work relationships, but in their parenting relationships or their romantic relationships, they're very codependent. So it's not like you are just codependent all the way around sometimes. You could be, but it doesn't necessarily mean that 

[00:04:37] Sandy: you are. Yes, it is very relationship specific.

[00:04:41] Sandy: Some people are just codependent everywhere. I've seen so many parents, especially lately, in the last 10, 15 years, who have lost sight of what parenting is about. They forget that they are creating a reliable, responsible adult, and instead they just want to be their child's [00:05:00] best friend. So they do everything for the child, and don't require the child to make their bed, or pick up after themselves, or do anything.

[00:05:10] Sandy: And then when the child turns 18, 19, and they're supposed to leave home, they don't leave home, and the parent is confused about why that is. And it's because they never learned. The parent was so codependent that they basically stunted the child's growth. And the child never learned to be an responsible adult.

[00:05:27] Sandy: That's really sad. That parent child thing really makes me unhappy for both parties. Yes. 

[00:05:32] Shannon: Codependent relationships are basically relationships that are out of balance. One person tends to give more than the other and doesn't ask for the same in return. And there are usually very thin or no boundaries.

[00:05:47] Shannon: So one person is usually not taking care of themself and the other person is really well taking care of themselves, doing 

[00:05:53] Sandy: whatever they want to do. Exactly. And a lot of people are codependent because they want the other [00:06:00] person to need them. The codependent person doesn't have strong self esteem and may have come from a family where they were taught that in order to get love and appreciation, they had to give, give, or be cooperative or just do everything for everybody else.

[00:06:14] Sandy: So, they become really needy emotionally, and in order to feel loved and validated, they become codependent. In the process, they don't honor their own feelings and needs, and may not even be aware of what those are. 

[00:06:29] Shannon: Basically, being codependent means there's an imbalance in the relationship. One person is giving much more than the other person, and basically allowing themselves to be taken advantage of in certain situations.

[00:06:41] Shannon: They don't have good boundaries. and they're not taking care of themselves where the other person is concerned. 

[00:06:46] Sandy: Exactly. Basically, if you're codependent, you need the other person to need you. That's where you get your validation. So, if somebody wants to be independent, that makes you feel like they don't need you anymore and they don't love you.[00:07:00] 

[00:07:00] Sandy: When someone's connected to you in that way, you're actually sacrificing yourself to play a part in the bigger system of your relationship. And at some point, If you have been enabling somebody for a long time, you might end up feeling resentful and empty even though you still need them for validation.

[00:07:17] Sandy: It's a very confusing, conflicting place to be. 

[00:07:20] Shannon: And super unhealthy. You need that other person for unhappiness and approval and you can get so wrapped up in that that you lose yourself. Your needs are then determined by the other person and it's not sustainable in any way that leads to happiness.

[00:07:36] Sandy: Exactly. Yeah, if you're doing all the giving and caring in the relationship and the other person is just taking, taking, taking and not giving back, after a while, it's not going to work for anybody. Is it 

[00:07:48] Shannon: possible to save a relationship from a codependent 

[00:07:52] Sandy: pattern? Absolutely. If you're willing to stop being codependent, first you have to identify it and maybe look at where it [00:08:00] came from.

[00:08:01] Sandy: Codependence often develops from parent child relationships when you were young. If you can identify that and notice that how you're feeling about the other person is not as happy or fulfilling as you want it to be, you can work through it. If you look at your childhood and identify where the pattern came from, and then realize that now you're an adult, you no longer need to give, give, give, give all the time in order to be appreciated and loved.

[00:08:31] Sandy: And if you're with people who expect that, you might be with the wrong people. I know I've 

[00:08:36] Shannon: been in relationships in the past where there was just kind of a general feeling of unease and I couldn't put my finger on it. Are there certain symptoms? of a codependent relationship that can help us identify them?

[00:08:47] Sandy: There are many. If you are in a codependent relationship, you probably take too much responsibility for the other person and don't allow them to be responsible for their choices and actions. Codependence with [00:09:00] somebody who is addicted to something, you are always making excuses for them. You're always covering up when they make a mess.

[00:09:07] Sandy: Same with if you do that with your children. You don't hold them. responsible for anything. You take on that responsibility for their choices and behavior, and you gravitate towards people who you think will need you. When you do that, you never get your way. Yeah, 

[00:09:23] Shannon: you wind up doing things for them that they should be doing for themselves, but you want them to need you so badly that you take care of those things for them.

[00:09:32] Shannon: I've especially seen this in parenting recently. Kids don't have to clean up after themselves or do their own homework. There's always a parent there saying, Oh, you should be able to enjoy your childhood. I'm not going to make it so that you have to take personal 

[00:09:46] Sandy: responsibility. Right. And they're doing terrible damage to the child in the process.

[00:09:51] Sandy: I've seen, at least where we live, that the schools are doing the same thing. Yes! They say, well, this is your assignment, and it's [00:10:00] due at the end of the week, but if you can't get around to it, that's okay, we'll pass you anyway, and you'll probably get a decent grade just because you bothered to show up.

[00:10:09] Sandy: Kids are learning from a wide variety of sources, not just codependent parents, that they really don't have to be reliable or responsible or do anything. They just are taught that because they exist, they are lovable and valuable, which is true, but that they don't have to be responsible for their choices, and that really does damage down the road.

[00:10:33] Sandy: Yeah, 

[00:10:34] Shannon: I feel like People who enable their partners or kids, they struggle to identify their own emotions and if you ask them what their boundaries are, they can't answer that question or they just don't know how to set them. They know they feel like they're being walked on or taken advantage of, but they don't know how to change 

[00:10:51] Sandy: that dynamic.

[00:10:52] Sandy: Yeah, they've given up their power and don't even know who they are. They define who they are through the other [00:11:00] person and what they do for that person. Being codependent is a really uncomfortable place to be. And it's also damaging for the person that you are codependent with. And confusing. 

[00:11:10] Shannon: Very much so.

[00:11:11] Shannon: Although if you recognize that you are codependent and work to change that, it is possible that you'll lose certain relationships. Because people who will get upset with you for setting boundaries are people who are benefiting from you not having any. I feel like once you get strong enough to say I don't want to be in a codependent relationship anymore, you have to be prepared, as with making any huge life change for the better for you, that you may 

[00:11:38] Sandy: lose some people along the way.

[00:11:40] Sandy: Exactly. Life changing can be quite positive once you identify that you're in a codependent relationship and decide to get out of it because it will free you to be you, but you might lose the other person in the process. And you have to be prepared to do that in order to take care of yourself, which you've never done before.

[00:11:59] Sandy: We kind of [00:12:00] touched on 

[00:12:00] Shannon: it a minute ago, but let's go down the list of ways to break the codependent 

[00:12:05] Sandy: cycle. Well, first you look at your childhood and identify where this pattern came from, then realize that now that you're an adult, it no longer needs to apply. And then identify how being codependent is causing you stress and anxiety and possibly damaging your mental and physical health.

[00:12:21] Sandy: When you're codependent, after a while, you just get exhausted. So then you can set and enforce boundaries with the other person and not feel guilty about it. 

[00:12:31] Shannon: That's a big one that can take some time, because that guilt has a way of creeping in. If you're really struggling with guilt, I encourage you to listen to our episode on guilt, because guilt is not an emotion that you're supposed to hang on to.

[00:12:44] Shannon: It's an emotion you're supposed to recognize, and then figure out what's causing it, and then let it go, and do something about the things that are 

[00:12:51] Sandy: causing it. Exactly. We call those red flag emotions. And once you notice the flag, put the flag down and then figure out why am I [00:13:00] feeling guilty? It's probably because I am violating a value that I was taught when I was very young.

[00:13:06] Sandy: Then you decide, is it a value that I need to keep or not? But you don't need to do guilt. Guilt is a waste of time, and can be really paralyzing. Yes, and if you were 

[00:13:16] Shannon: taught as a kid that it was your job to make sure everybody else is happy, you can pay attention to how that's making you feel in your life, and if that is not what you want to move forward with, you gotta reprogram 

[00:13:29] Sandy: yourself.

[00:13:30] Sandy: Exactly. and dump the guilt and then you let the other person know what the boundaries are and that you will be enforcing them. You can't waffle. You can't do it one day and not the next because they won't believe you. So if you're going to make a change and stop enabling and stop being codependent do it all the way.

[00:13:48] Sandy: You got to show up for 

[00:13:49] Shannon: yourself. Exactly. And then start focusing on the things that bring you joy, just independent of the other person. Start paying attention to you and what makes you happy, and [00:14:00] in doing that, you'll rediscover 

[00:14:02] Sandy: yourself. Yeah, you'll grow personally, you'll increase your self esteem, start prioritizing self care, and decide to step back and allow the other person to deal with the consequences of his or her decisions instead of protecting him from them.

[00:14:17] Sandy: That can be hard. It can be very hard, especially if it's a pattern that you've had ever since you were very small and you are actually getting some of the feedback you want from it. If your children love you because you don't make them do anything, you may be afraid to start enforcing some rules and boundaries because you're afraid they won't love you anymore.

[00:14:41] Sandy: Which is not true. They will actually love you more because you're teaching them that they are capable, competent people. And you are codependent and always doing something for other people. You make them feel like you think that they can't handle it. And that's kind of a slap in the face. So remember that you can always take a step back and [00:15:00] stop being codependent.

[00:15:01] Sandy: It's completely your choice and you have the power to make the change. And when you're 

[00:15:06] Shannon: breaking huge patterns like this, it can really help to have somebody in your corner who can reinforce that the decisions you're making are good decisions because in the beginning it can be really hard if you're saying, I'm going to put me first here or I'm going to take care of myself and then your partner or your kids are like, why are you doing this?

[00:15:25] Shannon: My life is worse now. It can be really hard to not fall right back into that and be like, Oh, well, that wasn't my intention. I love you. I'm going to make it so that things are easier and better for you. And it can be really helpful to have a coach or a counselor who can say, Okay, are you actually doing damage to this person?

[00:15:41] Shannon: Or are you holding them accountable for their actions and making it so that you're safe in the relationship? You know, sometimes it helps to have somebody who can 

[00:15:48] Sandy: remind you what you're doing. Exactly. You don't have to do it alone. A good friend or just anybody that you can be real with and talk about how stressful your relationship [00:16:00] is and brainstorm on how to shift it and stop being codependent because it's always your choice.

[00:16:06] Sandy: Once you identify what you're doing, you can change it. And if 

[00:16:09] Shannon: you don't know. If you're codependent or in a codependent relationship, I would challenge you to just sit down with a pen and some paper and start noting down where in your relationship you're feeling stressed around what, and then look at those patterns, and that can really help you figure out if this 

[00:16:26] Sandy: is where you are, if you're codependent or not.

[00:16:28] Sandy: And also look at what you do in the relationship and what you expect the other person to do. And if it's really imbalanced, you're codependent. 

[00:16:38] Shannon: It's such a big topic. Would you like to wrap us up? 

[00:16:41] Sandy: Absolutely. So, when you're independent, you have positive self esteem, rely on yourself to meet your emotional needs, and have strong boundaries where others are concerned.

[00:16:51] Sandy: Independence is a good thing as long as you don't let it isolate you from others. Interdependence is when two independent people work together [00:17:00] in a collaborative and respectful relationship. That is really the ideal, is to be interdependent. You both take responsibility at different times. When you are codependent, you give more in the relationship than the other person does, and you enable them and don't expect them to be responsible for their actions.

[00:17:17] Sandy: When you're codependent, you look to the other person for your identity and validation and sense of purpose. You're doing all the giving, and the other person is doing all the taking, and you're relying on them to make you happy. There are many things you can do to stop being codependent, including increasing your self esteem, setting and enforcing boundaries, looking at where that behavior came from and challenging it, and focusing on your personal growth and finding your joy.

[00:17:46] Sandy: In most relationships, the ideal is to be interdependent where two independent people collaborate and cooperate to have positive interactions. Amen. I hope our listeners are able to create [00:18:00] healthy interdependent relationships where you respect and value and honor yourself and set boundaries and maintain them, but also give to others in ways that work for you.

[00:18:12] Sandy: You do that, Chan. It's great. Well, I 

[00:18:15] Shannon: learned it from you, and it's not always easy. It is kind of a dance, and figuring that stuff out can feel a little bit like going down a rabbit hole sometimes. But ultimately, if you kind of back out and take a bigger view of your relationship, you can see where you're either giving more, taking more, or if you're both taking responsibility for yourselves.

[00:18:38] Shannon: And the relationship. I think that's key. If one person is taking responsibility for themselves and their relationship and the other person's just taking responsibility for themselves, the relationship isn't going to last. Exactly. You both have to have equal amounts of responsibility for each other and the 

[00:18:52] Sandy: relationship.

[00:18:53] Sandy: You both have to be willing to give and take. So, I hope all our listeners will be able to do that. Yes. So, they [00:19:00] can have healthy, happy relationships. 

[00:19:02] Shannon: And no matter where you are in that journey, we want to hear about it. It's really helpful for us because it helps us know what kinds of topics could be helpful going forward.

[00:19:11] Shannon: And we also just love hearing about, Your journey and how you have come to or enhanced or held onto your self-esteem and your personal power. So please share those with us, and you can do that wherever you stream. Or you can just visit our website at your personal power pod.com. Click contact, and just drop us an email.

[00:19:31] Shannon: And if you wanna learn about coaching or if you're interested in having a coach, contact Sandy. At sandy at insidejobscoach. com and we always look forward to hearing from you. So until next time, find your power and change your life.[00:20:00]